Bita and Beata are joined by guest Rachel Kashef from Little Persian Learning to share insights and inspirational resources on how to blend Persian culture into today’s modern families. Rachel is a former school teacher and has founded a learning kit and greeting card company in response to what she felt was lacking in today’s cross-cultural communities.
The conversation rounds out with the role of food and the incredible flavors of Persian cuisine. Listen, get inspired, and try your hand at a Persian weekend noshing breakfast routine!
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References made in the episode:
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Co-host Beata Nazem Kelley blog: BeatsEats – Persian Girl Desperately Addicted to Food!
Co-host Bita Arabian blog: Oven Hug – Healthy Persian Recipes | Modern Persian Recipes
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Transcript:
This is Modern Persian Food. Our culinary podcast for today’s food enthusiasts. We talk about classic Persian flavors, modern recipes and embracing culture and identity through food. I’m Bita and I’m also Beata. Welcome to our show.
Bita: Hi everyone, welcome to episode number 122. Today we’re joined by a special guest, Rachel Kashef, of Little Persian learning. We’re talking about blending Persian culture into bicultural families. We’re really excited. To have you here all the way from Michigan, virtually. Hi, Rachel.
Rachel: Hi.
Beata: Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us on our show.
Rachel: Thank you for having me. It’s really an honor.
Beata: You know, this is a topic that is of great interest to many of our listeners. We have folks that have come to us and asked us questions specific to, how can we blend culture into young families and in a positive way? And so interested in learning more. You come from a teaching background. You have three young kids yourself, so we’d love to hear about kind of your journey. What brought you to your business and let’s just go from there.
Rachel: I love to talk about that and before we start, I just want to say one thing I thought of is that I hear from a lot of people, as you said you do. And I think that this podcast is going to hold value for people who do come from a bicultural family, but also just persons on their own who might be half Iranian or Iranian but didn’t learn to speak Persian. I hear from a lot of these people whether or not they have kids. I do have a kid centered business, but I hear from a lot of people that are just partnered with non-Iranians or maybe just trying to figure out the Persian language themselves as an adult, and I think all of this kind of is applicable to so many people.
Bita: People really are looking for a way to kind of connect and bring their families on the journey, really. So, it’s kind of like, you know, like how can we celebrate some of these traditions and celebrate the language in a way that it’s going to work for our family? It’s like I personally, my husband is not Iranian, so we have conversations about this, like almost daily, about how, you know the differences of cultures and how we can kind of embrace, really, the great things from our respective cultures and from our community and our neighbors and the communities that are all around us. So, we live in urban settings, so we kind of have a lot of like different people around us. And it’s a great way for us to share about Persian culture too, especially with the big holidays that those are maybe like good springboards that we can, can start sharing just what it is to be Persian, what it means to be Iranian and those tenants and how they are pillars in our lives.
Beata: Yeah, naturally. We mostly talk about food, being Modern Persian Food. But you know, even so, every Gaston, you know, almost every person who listens is interested by this cultural connection aspect. So, I mean, I would just love to hear why you personally, and how you personally got interested in the Persian culture and wanting it to bring it into your life.
Rachel: Sure. As far as the language goes, my husband’s Iranian-American and my in-laws came here pre-revolution. And to focus on my husband for a little bit because that’s the connection here to the Persian culture. His family, they did not speak Persian consistently at home. Both of my in-laws came here and they were finishing school, working all the time perfecting their English, which they already knew, but it wasn’t a huge focus, especially because, and I think a lot of people will relate to this. They did not grow up in a community where there was a huge Persian community. So, there’s not really a great reason to continue it, and using my teaching experience, bringing that up here, this is something that even though I can’t relate to that because English was my first and only language, I used to see this all the time in the classroom. I came from a city that had a big Arabic speaking population, and so we had, even though it was a suburban district, we had a lot of ESL for students that came from upper middle-class homes where they spoke predominantly Arabic and then they came to school and they were embarrassed by it. And that was my husband’s situation. He did not want his peers to even hear his parents speaking Persian. So, he kind of jokes about that when he was a kid, the fastest way to get them, he and his siblings, that is to behave, was for his parents to speak in Persian and they just straighten out because they wanted it to stop. And they didn’t want any attention brought to them. But it also breaks my heart because I could see that happening when I was a teacher and I could see students who spoke Chinese or Arabic or other languages. And they didn’t want attention brought to them. They put up with people mispronouncing their names or not completely understanding the directions in English and not raising their hand or asking for clarification just because they didn’t want to bring attention to it.
Bita: Yeah, that can relate to that. I’m in the same boat as what your husband went through growing up. And an area in the Midwest that didn’t have a huge population versus where my husband was here in California and the other beach of June was here in California is a little bit different situation. But for us, it’s this just this huge need to assimilate. And you don’t even know that you’re doing it, you know. Because you’re a kid, but you just want to be like everybody else.
Beata: That generation as well, you know, there was current events that kind of like made it hard to have pride in like where we were from and things like that too. So, I think in the early 80s there were like a lot of things happening in in current events that kind of was like, oh, I don’t want to necessarily be associated with certain of the things that were happening. So, I got it and my name was butchered all the time and I actually didn’t even really think anyone had my same name until I then became an adult. And then I started finding people with the same name. And, you know, ultimately, I met the other Bita, and now there’s a bunch of different Bitas that I know. So, it’s definitely, it could be really challenging. Really challenging time when you’re growing up and trying to fit in. And there’s already so many reasons that people can, like, get bullied and things like that. It’s like, let’s not add another layer of complexity to that.
Rachel: Right.
Bita: So, your husband is he like me and that like I understand most things in Farsi, you know and I can kind of get my point across but.
Rachel: So, his spoken Persian was not very good at all. He knew mostly phrases, a lot of slang, things that he would overhear his parents saying a lot of just stuff that wasn’t necessarily even conversational, like corrective things like OK, like, hurry up, let’s go, you know. That sort of things.
Beata: Yeah. My friends growing up, my friend, actually knew a couple of phrases. It was like, A knock on the wall, the hop like, go to sleep me up giggling and talking so she knew that one.
Rachel: Exactly. So, he knew a lot of those and that kind of was a pivot point for us. When we got married and when I became pregnant with our first born, it actually wasn’t even crossing our minds. But as soon as my son was born, I think this moment of clarity came to my husband that, there was all of this pressure on him all of a sudden that here is, you know, Persian culture is so old and the history that comes with it, and then all of a sudden, he had this conversation with me where he said, this is it. Like if I don’t teach my kids Persian, anything that I don’t pass on to them like this is the end. Like, yes, my parents came to America, but that is not what is going to end it. It’s going to be that, I didn’t teach them because his parents upheld traditions and holidays and of course they speak Persian and it all of a sudden, he saw or saw him was like, I have to give this to him. And so, he realized that he wanted to start delving into the language because it’s such an important part of it. And so, I kind of realized that this was something you know, Bita. You were saying that you and your husband talked about this all the time and it was something that we were talking about. We realized we both value this. I come from a mixed background. Various countries in Europe and I knew very little about my family’s history. You know, you do social studies projects and things like that and it’s like, I’m from these countries and you know, we had nicknames for my grandparents that were reflective of our heritage. But that’s kind of where it stopped, you know, with the food, the culture, the holidays just became very Americanized, and I didn’t know very much. And so, as it became important to us for our son, it had to become important to me because I was home with him. There’s not a big community where we are. There’s not immersion preschools, there wasn’t Persian classes. I mean, we were just like, okay. All of a sudden, I was like, I have to learn this faster than my baby is, so that I can be the one to teach. So that’s how the language started. And anybody that’s been to littlepersian.com lately has seen every neurus. Now I have something called the hands-on Hoff scene, which is a reusable, here’s everything you need in a box to teach your kid about a hop scene, and you don’t have to go chasing down senjed, you don’t have to grow your own wheat grass seeds, which you know, you can use Amazon, but at the time I remember like being at a health food store like you have wheat grass or wheat crusty, you know, and trying to find these. So the hand set has since been something that’s been really useful for our family to be able to have something that even our, you know, 3 year old, one year old, whatever age at the moment they are, they can touch it and really experience it.
Bita: And learn about each item.
Beata: Yeah.
Rachel: And it’s in addition to the half seen that they’re not allowed to touch.
Beata: Yeah, I think that Noah Rusen have seen is such a great one to bring into the classroom. Having been a classroom teacher because it’s so easy to teach it. And it’s interesting. So, I think bet, you’ve done it as well too, but I have cards you know to kind of spell out in English. With the S sound of the seven things, and to show it, and I bring the costume and then we end with the dance and things. So, it’s really fun to introduce it.
Rachel: Yeah, I think actually, Bita, I know at the beginning, because you definitely have been around since Little Persian first started, and I think you kind of helped me have the idea of a classroom.
Bita: Yeah!
Rachel: Putting together something for parents to take. That was such a good idea. And so, I did that for norooz and for Yoda. Yeah. And so, it ended up being like a coloring page with the half sin, but also kind of a take home letter because I always feel like you hear about these special guests at school and you’re like, oh, so and so’s mom came to talk about the Wally. Or whatever and you ask your kid and they’re like,
Beata: Right.
Rachel: Like they can’t remember what it was. And I’m like, well I actually would be curious to know beyond the clichés that you see, you know. So, there’s a little take home letter. And that’s just a free download on the website, but for parents to be able to even if you don’t go into present that you can just ask the classroom teacher like, can I send in, you know, a snack or send in, you know, or send in some half sin items and the teacher would most likely be willing to do it. I mean, honestly, coming from a public-school background, I felt like a lot of the teachers wanted to have more diversity inclusion,
Beata: Exactly.
Rachel: But they just didn’t know what to do. Like it’s Christmas time. They’re no longer calling it a Christmas party. It’s a winter party. But throughout the rest of the year, they’re like looking at these students that they know they have heritages that are first- or second-generation and it’s like what can we share, you know? And a lot of times the parents there might be a language barrier or something. So, I hope that a lot of families can use those resources to make it really approachable and know that teachers do want that?
Beata: Yeah, absolutely.
Bita: Thank you for what you’re doing, because a lot of times the way that cultures are introduced, it’s just food, like, ok, we’re having International Day, right, coming from the teaching background, like
Rachel: Yeah.
Bita: Having International Day. So, there’s an egg roll, and there’s a rice and there’s a, you know,
Rachel: Yeah.
Bita: But this is so much more. You’re doing language, you’re doing holidays.
Beata: Yeah, absolutely. Not only is it a good opportunity for parents to go and share in the classroom. But to be honest with you, my daughter, who is 8, has a really big sense of pride when it comes to her culture and she wants to present like the half scene. She’s done that over the last few years.
Rachel: I know. Just give me goosebumps. That’s so awesome.
Bita: That’s the goal.
Beata: Yes, exactly. So, your hands on half sin kit. I think it’s a great way. I’ve seen it. My cousin has it. It looks really great and it’s reusable. So that’s great because you can kind of invest in something and use it over the years where you can just set that up at home if you want to have your own like leading up to half sin kit. That’s super cute too. I actually really love that because, you know, we’ve gone over norooz in previous episodes. We will have a great New Year’s and norooz coverage coming up next month, but there are so many parts to it. There is like the chaharsanbe suri, setting up and cleaning the house, khooneh tekooni, and norooz itself, and sizdah be-dar. So, I love how that kid that you have kind of covers all of those steps of like the pre-norooz and then the post norooz and all of those activities.
Rachel: Yea. And those activity boxes, those are new for this year where it’s just kind of you know one time use of crafts and things like that. And I think the idea behind that is that especially for those of us that are not in big communities, I feel like it can be a little isolating to, you know, we make a really big deal in our family about norooz.
Rachel: And then you leave the house and it’s like nobody knows what this is, you know. And so, the activity box, I think for me the idea behind it was giving the kids kind of not that crafts are what makes a holiday, but giving them some excitement and seeing it exists somewhere besides just their own home and their own family and having, you know, there’s so much stuff that comes home from school for even silly holidays. You know, like that whole little meaning nowadays, like Saint Patrick’s Day or think you know, and they come home with coloring pages and all of this. So, giving some kind of like oomph to the holiday and some real fun stuff to do with it too.
Beata: Yeah. So thank you. I thank you for everything that you’re doing to kind of bring culture to Persian families, hybrid families, non-Persian families. So, thank you.
Rachel: Yes, let’s talk about food.
Beata: So food is like a great way to introduce people to our culture. Every time we kind of have an event that there’s not pure Persians there, it’s fun to incorporate Persian flavors so that people learn and are able to experience that. But how does that work to kind of like introduce culture in our families and in our communities?
Bita: It’s the easiest can do it right. It’s the easiest connector.
Rachel: I know how people like Persian food is so hard to make. And then that’s just the end of their story. And so, I hope that some people will hang on because
Beata: Yes.
Rachel: I did think that and I love to cook all different kinds of food. I love to eat all different kinds of food and I think that I’m pretty, like open minded about, there’s not very much I don’t like. But when my husband, I had never tried Persian food, so when he was like, oh, gorma sabzi, you have to try my dad’s gorma sabzi and my head like exploded when I tried it. I had never tried anything like it before and I recently talking to my mother in law laughing about how, you know, in American cultures like you go to a restaurant and there’s like a little sprig of cilantro on the side of your, you know, food
Beata: Right.
Rachel: Or like a piece of parsley
Beata: Garnish.
Rachel: And it’s like, not even like meant to be eaten. And then I’ve tried gorma sabzi and I just never tried anything like that. Like the massive amount of herbs and it was so good.
Beata: Herb explosion. Can you cook iy?
Rachel: I can now.
Beata: Oh my gosh.
Rachel: But I will say that like for my own style of cooking, I incorporate a lot of different styles. But I’m not a huge recipe person, so there was a huge challenge for me that we all know, like, oh, I tried to get my mom’s like, you know, whatever, you know, horse cross starts being this a little bit of this. And that’s exactly what I found too. And so then, I’m like how do I do this because I’m not familiar with cooking with fenugreek or all these fresh herbs, and I don’t know how to adlib. As I’m going with these things that I’m not familiar with. So actually, your podcast was a great way to like bring everything down. Approachable
Rachel: I think we started off around the same year. I got in at the beginning and you guys do such a good job at making it approachable and like, what is it like in an American kitchen to incorporate these things? And also, on busy schedules. We all know, I mean, I wanted to learn how to make a tadig traditionally. And I spent the first like a year and a half doing that. And like this is with young kids at meal time. It is so much to time mitady at the same time that you’re making the rest of the meal
Bita: Exactly.
Beata: I think the key is to get a rice cooker that does that for you.
Rachel: Right, so I eventually I felt like it wasn’t fair to get a rice cooker until I actually knew what it took. So, it’s funny, but I held off. I’m getting a rice cooker till I could actually do it myself. And I was like, OK, I’ve, I’ve earned this.
Bita: Yeah, you’re a worker.
Rachel: And now I use a rice cooker because I have three kids and it’s a tool that allows me to cook Persian more often because yeah, if that’s set, then I can actually make you know, a meal that takes over an hour.
Beata: Set it and forget it. Yeah.
Rachel: Yeah, I would say try to make a good home cooked Persian meal once a week and then we all know the leftovers are good for a whole another night, you just pop another padding in the rice cooker and serve it again.
Beata: I love it.
Bita: Good for you.
Rachel: And a little tradition that we’ve done at our house for a long time is that we have kind of a Persian inspired breakfast on Saturdays. And so that’s kind of become something special on the weekends.
Bita: I love it.
Beata: What is the Persian inspired breakfast in your family?
Rachel: I kind of feel like you know, the Nuno paneer, if it’s summer time and I can get fresh herbs at farmers market or something, we’ll do that sour cherry jam, walnuts, cucumbers.
Bita: Lovely.
Rachel: So, we kind of set out a smorgasbord of whatever we have that’s Persian-ish the morning of and we kind of have a leisurely noshing breakfast and have time to chat and.
Bita: That’s so nice. Beata: I love it. Beautiful.
Rachel: Yeah, it’s become special and it doesn’t have to be hard, and I hope that that’s everyone’s take away is that you don’t have to start with Gorma sabzi, you know
Beata: Yeah.
Bita: And I think I’ve had a lot of people contact me even about food through little Persian. Like, how did you learn how to make Persian food or how did you learn how to make teddila. Like, go online and get a parves rice cooker.
Beata: Yes.
Bita: Yes.
Rachel: And serve the tidy. Like, don’t get caught up on whether you made it yourself and you know the breakfast like, start with what you can. Like it doesn’t have to be a Persian jam. It doesn’t have to be, you know a special cheese like get a feta, get some walnuts. Cut up some cucumbers and get whatever flatbread you can. Like we don’t have Sangak where we are. But we get what we can and a lot of times we’re using pita you. Know. So
Beata: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Bita: That’s amazing. I love that. I love it how you can really use food to really introduce the culture to your friends, to your family. And this has been great. We really enjoy learning about your journey, learning about little Persian. Where can people find you and your resources?
Rachel: So littlepersian.com is our website and I try to keep that the central hub as far as we have a blog and all our products and I try to make useful blog posts. And also, if you’re on social media, we’re on Instagram and Facebook, its Little Persian Learning on there and then we have an e-mail list and you can find that if you just go to our website on the very bottom, there’s the e-mail list and we keep it brief. We don’t send out a lot, but I do send out when there’s important things and try and put new resources, new releases, things like that.
Bita: Fantastic.
Beata: Yeah, I just remembered one resource that you had provided before. Didn’t you like compile a huge list of national schools that teach Farsi.
Rachel: I did, yeah. So, I’m trying to make our blog posts things that again like the work that we’ve done, like how hard was it to find a Persian school or Persian tutor. It was really hard. And oftentimes they’re so small. Or like a woman who is a retired teacher and is doing this out of her home or out of a Community College or something really small. So
Beata: Right.
Rachel: I really reached out to everyone that I knew in the community and then also to our followers to find like if you are using somebody and you like them, please let me know and I’ve made kind of a constantly updated list. Yes, that’s on our blog. So if you just go to littlepersian.com to our blog, you’ll see like a Persian school directory I think it’s called. And trying to keep that up to date so that people don’t have to dig so hard for information and they can get connected.
Beata: Awesome. Thank you.
Rachel: Well, thank you for having me. This is fun.
Bita: This was a pleasure. Great talking to you. Thank you, Rachel joon.
Rachel: You’re welcome. Thank you. Thank you.
Beata: Thank you ladies, until next time.
Rachel: OK. Bye bye.
Bita: Bye. Bye Beata joon, bye bye.
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